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Wednesday, April 10, 2024

What's Apple's iPhone Camera Strategy, Anyway?

It's September, which can only mean one thing: Apple's got some new products. This week, the company held a virtual event to detail its slate of upcoming iPhones, iPads, and smartwatches. Along with the new chips, Apple showed off some flashy photo and video features meant to appeal to pro users. But are those features all they're cracked up to be? And do you really need to buy the new hardware in order to use them?

This week on Gadget Lab, WIRED reviews editor Julian Chokkattu joins us to talk about everything Apple announced this week and what you need to know before upgrading.

Show Notes

Read all about the new iPhone 13. Also check out the changes to the iPad Mini. Here’s everything Apple announced at its event this week. Here’s Lauren and Julian’s story about Google’s new tensor chip in its Pixel 6 phone. And you bet your ass we talked about cargo pants again.


Julian recommends Apple’s MagSafe ecosystem for your phone accessories. Mike recommends just using the iPad Mini instead of a phone. Lauren recommends the docu-series LuLaRich on Amazon Prime.

Julian Chokkattu can be found on Twitter @JulianChokkattu. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.

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Lauren Goode: Mike.

Michael Calore: Lauren.

LG: Mike. Now, are you going to consider switching to an iPhone? I mean, think of all the features, cinematic video, a one terabyte storage option being totally locked into the Apple universe. Doesn't this sound so much more appealing than a Pixel?

MC: No, it's that last one that's a real sticking point for me. I don't like being locked in anywhere.

LG: Well regardless. You can imagine this is what we're going to be talking about today.

[Gadget Lab intro theme music plays]

LG: Hi, everyone. Welcome to Gadget Lab. I'm Lauren Goode. I'm a senior writer at WIRED and I am podcasting from Kara Swisher's closet.

MC: And I am Michael Calore. I am a senior editor at WIRED and I am podcasting from Michael Calore’s closet.

LG: We are also joined by WIRED reviews editor Julian Chokkattu, who joins us from New York city, Julian who's closet, our used zooming from right now? And are you zooming on an iPhone 13? Are you allowed to say whether you were.

Julian Chokkattu: Hello. I am not in a closet and no comment.

LG: All right. So today we're talking about Apple’s pre-produced visually stunning and somewhat boring iPhone 13 event this week. As you may have heard, there was an iPhone event on Tuesday. It was entirely online because we're not yet back to in-person events. Yes, my tweet about arriving at Apple Park before Dieter Bohn was a joke everyone. There are some new iPhones a couple of iPads and an Apple Watch, or at least there's the suggestion of an Apple Watch because we don't yet know when it's shipping. There are also some new software features in the iPhone, specifically around the cameras.

So we're going to get into that software a little bit later in the show and maybe talk a little bit about iOS 15, which is the upgrade that we like to say will make your iPhone feel new again, even if you don't buy new hardware, but first we have to talk about the iPhone 13. So guys this year was definitely a year when we just saw an extension of existing Apple product lines. There were no huge surprises. Julian. First give us a roundup of the new iPhones and then we'll talk about the actual standout features.

JC: Sure. Yeah. So just like last year you have four iPhones to choose from the iPhone Mini iPhone, 13 iPhone 13 Pro and iPhone 13 Pro Max. They're all the same sizes. And I mean, overall you're right, it's pretty boring in that everything that's new here is a slight improvement of existing features. So for example, the batteries on all of them are bigger, so you're going to get better battery life. That in particular is good for the iPhone 13 Mini, which, Lauren, you tested the 12 Mini last year and the battery life was sort of a sticking point. So, that's nice. And there's one big perk for the Pro models this year, it's Pro Motion, which is this refresh rate technology that Apple introduced back in 2017 with the iPad Pro. And finally, it's now coming to an iPhone, basically normal smartphones have 60 Hertz refresh rates.

And that means you're seeing 60 images per second on the screen. Whenever you're doing anything from scrolling on Twitter or just moving around the interface, but by doubling it to 120 Hertz, you're going to be seeing double the frames. So that means everything is going to look a little smoother and just nicer when you're interacting with things and it can even improve things like gameplay, when you're in a super fast frenetic action game, for example, you can sort of have that more responsive field because everything is just going to feel a little buttery smooth.

So that's only for the Pro models. So you're not going to get that with the 13 and the 13 Mini, but everything else otherwise is pretty much the same across the board. The main camera for all of the cameras this year has sensor shift technology, which is something Apple introduced last year, instead of stabilizing the lens like on most phones, the actual sensor is stabilized. So that should theoretically help with those micro movements when you're just holding the phone and taking a picture, which should mean better nighttime images, for example, and all of the lenses on all of the cameras can now capture in low light. So basically you're going to get better camera performance in low light.

LG: Julian I have a quick question for you, not that you and I have loaner units from Apple or anything like that. We're not saying on the show, but in the back the phone, you might notice that there's a diagonal camera placement. And when you compare it to the iPhone 12 and iPhone 11, the actual camera lenses they're stacked differently. What's the point of that.

JC: So Apple had mentioned something about rearranging the internal components to allow for bigger screens. For example, the notches on the front camera are smaller this year. So there's some a rearranging going overall, but probably it's just to make sure that everyone knows you're using a new iPhone, it's that seems like what it is, right? It doesn't really seem like there's much there to change and they just moved it so that yep. You have an iPhone 13, not the iPhone 12.

LG: Got it.

MC: OK. So what else is new beyond the cameras?

JC: There's also improved storage sizes. So for example, there's no more 64 gig storage option, which probably should have happened a long time ago because cheap Android phones come with 128 gigs. And also the Pro models now can go up to a whole terabyte, which is probably a lot of space and more than most people need, but who knows, maybe you were filming with ProRes format, a new format that you can film with on the iPhone Pro models. It's something that really is reserved for the photographers and videographers that really like to tinker with their footage, because it lets you control your clips a little more when you're editing them. And one cool new trick is also photographic styles, which is sort of like applying a filter on Instagram. But before you capture the photo and by doing this, you're basically able to tweak elements of the photos before the processing. So things like skin tones don't get damaged or changed or drastically altered. So, that should theoretically mean a nicer looking filter.

MC: So Julian, what we saw this week during Apple's presentation is that they took a lot of time to walk us through the technical innovations in the lenses and in the capture technology inside the phone. But a lot of the stuff that you're talking about, like Pro Raw photographic styles, all of the low light performance, a lot of that is just software, right?

JC: Yeah, it is. And I feel like some of it might be to do with that processor. It's hard to say because they don't divulge too many details, but it could be that some of those features are only enabled with the processor, which is really why we never see Apple porting a lot of features back to older models. A lot of the times it's you got to buy the new hardware to access that new feature. So who knows, they might introduce something like photographic style to the older one, I don't see why the iPhone 12, for example wouldn't be able to handle something like that. Especially since every year they seem to tell the chip's capabilities, right. So if it's that good why can't it paddle these new glorified filters. But yeah, it could just be just a way to make sure that you do buy the new hardware.

LG: Yeah. I was going to say, I call bullshit. There was a period of time where you could use portrait mode on people, but not objects or pets. And then there was like, "Oh, but you really got to get the new phone if you want to take a portrait photo of your cat over there." And it's like, "Really, you couldn't just update the software on the previous model, which still has a pretty darn good system on a chip and make that possible." I mean, come on folks.

JC: Yeah. I do want to maybe give props to Google for routinely bringing back a lot of their software features that they introduced with every new Pixel. They'll usually roll it back to a Pixel or two from the previous years, which is nice and definitely something Apple could do more often.

MC: What are the big differences between the Pro model phones and the normy phones?

LG: The normy phones. I can take this one. Although, like I said, it's not as though Julian has the Pro in his hand right now, and I have the 13. We're not saying that. So the iPhone 13's camera is good, but it's just not as good as the Pros. And this is just classic Apple product differentiation. It's almost like an S-year a phone updates or to be a little more specific it's as if the iPhone 13 is getting some of the features of the iPhone 12 Pro phones from last year. So it has a larger sensor with a wider aperture. There's a nice ultra wide camera that has a wide field of view. The iPhone 13 has better image stabilization in the year before, but if you want the best, best cameras, you're probably going to want to go with the 13 Pro or Pro Max or Mike would probably argue you would probably argue the Pixel phone.

I mean, the way that I think I look at iPhone 13, like in broader context this year is one it's going to be an upgrade year for a lot of people because more and more data has shown that people are holding onto their iPhones for longer. And I think probably at the start of the pandemic, we didn't know how things were going to pan out. It turned out that people were still buying lots of iPhones and laptops and tablets and Chromebooks, right. We know that the tech companies have done tremendously well, but there probably is a pretty large group of consumers who have just been holding onto things.

And now they might be ready to upgrade. And they're probably going to want to go for something like the 13 or 13 Pro. So I tend to think of this as an upgrade year for a lot of people. And the second thing is that, and this is like a whole other thing, but we're starting to see subsidies coming back from carriers. And even today I got an email from Walmart that was a hundred dollars off the new iPhone 13 if you get it at Walmart. So I think Apple is going to start to use some of those carrier channels and retail channels to really market these phones this year. And that might spur some more purchases.

MC: So Julian, you're one of the people who reviews, iPhone rewiring. I'm sure all your friends come to you all the time and they say, "Should I get the new iPhone?" And what are you going to tell people this year? Who should get a new one this year?

JC: If you have an iPhone 12, the answer is no, because usually if you have last year's phone, please hold onto it for another year or two, because you don't need to upgrade every year. And also, there's just not much of a difference from last year. So you're really not going to see a tremendous benefit. If you have the iPhone 11, if your phone's fine, then hold onto it another year. But if you just feel like your battery is not doing as well. One thing that we will point out is doing a battery swap is pretty easy with Apple. If you just take it there and they'll replace it for a very nominal fee, that's something that can extend the life of your phone. But if you have anything older than that, then I think it's definitely time to upgrade. And I think you will enjoy the iPhone 13.

Is probably the recommendation that we'll have for most people, the iPhone 13 Mini if you really want that tiny phone and then the iPhone 13 Pro, if you want the best and biggest thing out there. We're always a bit iffy on the iPhone 13 Pro because it's sort of a $300 jump from the iPhone 13. And it's also in this just like, "OK, well for a hundred dollars more I can get the big, super big one." So it's really like a question of whether you want the Pro features and you don't want that huge size then sure go for that.

MC: Yeah. Almost everyone that I know who goes Pro goes Pro Max, because it's the bigger screen it's like the big value add is that giant screen.

JC: Yeah. And for a hundred bucks more, it just sort of makes more sense.

LG: I have an 11 and I have to say, I'm tempted to upgrade this year.

JC: What went from seeing everything about the 13 would sort of make you want to upgrade?

LG: Three things, the better battery life, the cameras, and just the faster processor. Yeah. I mean, I kind of prided myself on holding onto the 11 for a while and not getting the … And it was not even the 11 Pro it's just the 11. I went with a normy phone, this was the phone I thought that most people needed and wanted. And as product reviewers were always getting access to the best gadgets, top of the line models, we get to borrow them and use them for a period of time. And I just thought I just want to see what a regular iPhone experience is like for awhile, but now I'm like, oh, I'm really tempted to get 13, and possibly the 13 Pro.

MC: Max.

LG: Not the Max. That's a little too big for me.

MC: Got to get the Max, giant screen.

LG: We should also, speaking of the Max, we should probably also talk about the Mini, which is the iPad Mini.

MC: That's my recommendation this week.

LG: Oh, OK. Well maybe you can just give us a rundown of the iPad Mini in your recommendation. How does that work?

MC: Yeah.

LG: And then we'd be remiss if we didn't mention the Apple Watch series seven, which Apple also announced on Tuesday, oddly enough, no release state for it, which is pretty unusual. We had heard in advance of the event. There'd been reports that there might be production delays on this one. Interestingly, we heard there might be production delays because of a totally revamped design that turned out not to be the case. I mean, there's a little bit different about this Watch. It has a bigger display, smaller bezels, but otherwise it looks like an Apple Watch. It wasn't a dramatic revamp or anything like that. That said, it is one of the world's best-selling wearables and world's selling Watches. And so lots of people will probably buy this, but we are not … We don't have the chance to test it just yet. So I guess we'll have to do a later show on that. Maybe bring on Adrienne, since she also loves her wearables.

MC: Tick tock.

LG: All right, we're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk all about Apple's software.


LG: All right, unsurprisingly, Apple spent a lot of the iPhone event talking about the phone cameras. They do this thing where they pitch using iPhones, it's movie cameras. You know, sometimes they call it a big name celebrity to pitch the idea. In this case, it was Kathryn Bigelow. But this time there's a software feature that might actually mimic what professional cinematographers can do with their big expensive cameras. Julian you're our resident utter. Tell us about cinematic mode. What is this?

JC: So cinematic mode is … Well, everyone is familiar with portrait mode at this point, it's a staple feature on most phones. You take a picture with portrait mode and it'll sort of blur the background around a subject, giving you a nice bokeh, which is what the effect is called, and that sort of mimicking DSLRs and traditional cameras that can do this because they have these giant big lenses that can simulate that depth. And it just makes it look nicer. And so here, they're applying it to video. And this isn't the first time we've seen a company try adding portrait mode to video. Samsung, Huawei, and a couple of other manufacturers have done it before, but all of them have been really bad. I've tested all of them and they're all pretty bad, they just look horrible. This is the first time I think …

And of course I haven't tested this yet, so I can't say anything. If it's going to look good or not, from what they've shown us, it looks the most feature filled version of this portrait mode that we've ever seen. For example, it's not just applying this bouquet effect around a subject. It's also understanding when a subject, for example, looks behind them and then it might shift the focus to whatever they're looking at. And if you have two people in the frame, it'll put the focus on someone in front. And if they turn around to talk to the person next to them, it'll shift that focus to that person as well. So it's really smart. It's like analyzing everything that's actually in the shot and choosing a lot of things based on what it thinks you want. And, but don't worry you can change a lot of that later on.

You can control it when you were filming as well. But also the really cool thing is it's actually capturing this entire depth map while you're recording. So later on, if you think that, oh, well, I didn't want that to be in focus. You can just go to the editing page and it'll switch the focus quickly. So it's pretty remarkable. That is something that we haven't really seen. We've seen being able to change a photo's focus on Pixel phones. For example, it doesn't work that well, but this is the first time that we were seeing something like this for video. And it's pretty incredible. I'm very excited because the lack of depth in videos is something that has been an issue for a long time. I like taking photos of my mirrorless camera and videos of my mirrorless camera. And you really can't recreate that depth feeling—that bokeh look—without having an expensive lens attached to your camera and being able to get something similar.

We'll see how it looks. But if it sort of actually looks reasonably well, that's very exciting. But one thing that I do want to point out is that if you look at the technical specs on Apple's page, they did not say this to the event. Of course, it only works at 1080p, 30 FPS. Now the frames per second might not be a bad thing, but 1080p might be a bit of a issue for some people as we're getting larger screens. It might look good on your phone, but maybe if you put it on a monitor or a big TV, probably going to look a little pixelated. I don't know. We'll see.

MC: Which brings me to my big question, which is what is the audience for this? What you're telling me is that the videos of my cats playing with each other or my cousin's baby taking its first step is going to just look better. Kathryn Bigelow is not going to shoot a movie on an iPhone that shoots 30 FPS, 1080p, even if it has all these cool features. So content creators, maybe, sure. But that's a pretty slim sliver of Apple’s potential millions and hundreds of millions of customers for this device. So why even do it if it's so limited and why make such a big deal about it being the cinema features pros have always wanted if this is not what pros want? Pros are just going to use a Red, like a Red Dragon or something.

JC: I think what's kind of cool is that they did not restrict this to the Pro models. This is actually going to be baked into all the iPhone 13 devices. So, yes, I think pros are going to look at this and be like, "What the heck? Why isn't it in 4k or 8K whatever?" But it's the same story with portrait mode. I personally don't know how many people out there are using portrait mode regularly, but as soon as that feature became available on my phone, I routinely take portrait mode shots most of the time, because I think when it works, it actually looks really good and it looks a lot better than sometimes the traditional photos. So I think it's something that we're going to see that if most people are able to just access it quickly and easily and it consistently will look really nice.

This might just be the default way. A lot of people shoot videos of particular subjects, maybe not landscapes or something like that. But if they're taking a video of their baby or their pets or another person, I think people might gradually shifted to using this mode more often just because it'll have that nice little look. And for most people that's probably fine. Hey, it saves you on storage space because you probably not shooting 4k, super large files, but I don't see pros really gravitating to it because they probably have the right hardware to have that look instead of using a phone to simulate it.

LG: So, we have both gotten a glimpse of the Pixel 6 Julian, and we wrote a story about how Google is going to be using a new chip its own custom designed a tensor chip in this phone and Pixels already have a great reputation, right. In terms of their cameras. So even though we haven't tried the Pixel 6 yet, how do you think these new iPhone cameras are going to stack up to Google's latest cameras on Pixel?

JC: It's hard to say because I know what Pixel photos look like and they're very attuned to my type of photography. It was a lot of contrast and a lot of sharpness, whereas the iPhone has its own sort of style, which I also appreciate and like. But the larger sensor with the new Pixel is going to change a lot of things and it might actually change how a lot of the photos end up looking. So it could be significantly better than previous Pixels, but I don't know if we're going to say it's significantly better than the iPhone 13, for example, it might be, it could be on an even footing. One area that I think is going to be interesting is Pixels have always suffered in their video department.

That's something Google specifically tried to address when they were teasing the Pixel 6, they were going to like, "Oh, it's going to be better this time." But now with the iPhone, having this cinematic mode and ProRes video capabilities, it might be that Pixel is still playing a little bit of a catch up there, but where it does make it exciting, it finally feels like we're in a bit of a competition again, to see what exactly is the best camera phone out there instead of it being the Pixel for like four years in a row.

MC: Yeah. Significant is the key word there because even with iPhones, it's very easy to tell the difference between a photo taken with an iPhone five and photo taken with an iPhone eight. It's very difficult to tell the difference between a photo taken with an iPhone X and then I phone 12 because the cameras they've matured to the point and the sensors and the chips have matured to the point where every photo that you take with an iPhone is past good enough and into the realm of very, very good. So, if you go out and buy the new one, is it going to take photos that are that much better than the one before it may be? Maybe not. I think that's probably why Apple is pushing all of these big video features and the features that people would usually use other apps to achieve like photographic styles, because it's just an added bonus to the things that you're already used to. Instead of saying, here is something that is significantly better than what you're already used to.

JC: Yeah. It's even the same with sort of night mode. We used to spend so much time talking about night mode at these events and how you can take better photos and little light, but now it's an afterthought like, "Oh yeah, it'll take nicer photos at night." Cool. That used to be a hard thing to do, but within the past three or so years, it's just become such a normal capability that nowadays, if you have one of these top end models, you can take a really good photo at night. So that's nice to see and I think that's great, but it is making it a little harder to be choosy with what exactly is the best camera phone.

MC: OK. Since we're talking about video and since we're talking about the Apple event that happened this week, I have to ask you WTF is up with the video that Apple used to open the iPhone event this week, the California soul video. Because I have thoughts about it, but I'm curious to hear your guys' thoughts about it.

JC: I am curious to hear your thoughts about it because my experience with watching these things is that when I gather my thoughts and I don't pay attention to the video.

LG: Yeah. It was just felt like a giant love letter to California. Yeah. That's really all I have to say about that. Mike, what are your thoughts on it?

MC: I thought it was bad. I thought it was really bad. I thought it was bad. I thought that the cinematography was bad. I thought the music was really bad. I thought it was way to rapid fire. Quick, quick, quick. I didn't really get a good look at anything that they were trying to show me. One of the people that we work with joked on slack. Well, while these events are going on we're covering them. So we're all on slack and we're all like typing furiously and making little jokes and asides. One of the people that we worked with joked that at end of the presentation, Apple is probably going to say all of the stuff that you saw, those vistas all around California were all shot with a brand new iDrone because it was just like …

It felt like one of those videos where like somebody got a new drone for Christmas and they went out and just went on a two week road trip and just did a bunch of crazy drone shots and then edited them all together into like 90 seconds and showed it on a big screen and made all of their relatives.

LG: I thought for sure that we were getting a glimpse of the metaverse because the final shot was at the California desert. And you see Tim Cook's very cool high top sneakers just kind of shuffling through the sand. And then all of a sudden he stepped onto the keynote stage, presumably at Steve Jobs Theater. And I was like, "Ah, this is the metaverse."

MC: Yeah. I thought it was watching El Topo for a minute.

LG: All right. Well, Mike, as always, thanks for your brutally honest assessment of your portion of the Apple event.

MC: There's a lot of people who I used to work with here at WIRED, who now work at Apple, who were probably involved in, I'm sorry that I just ragged on your video, but it was not for me. It was not for me.

LG: Oh, don't be sorry. They went to the dark side. Sorry guys, we're making fun of your videos. All right. Let's take a break, and then we're going to come back with our recommendations.


LG: Julian, as our guest of honor this week, what is your recommendation?

JC: I would stay in line with the theme of all things, Apple and recommend the MagSafe ecosystem. It's something that Apple introduced last year. If you're unfamiliar, basically with the iPhone 12 and up the iPhone 13 as well, they all have this system called MagSafe, which is this array of magnets on the back of the iPhones that let you stick accessories and different little gadgets on the back of them. And I feel like they're under utilized and Apple isn't doing that good of a job promoting this because it really is pretty amazing. I do a lot with photo and video stuff, and I'm constantly putting my camera on a tripod, which involves rotating it on a tripod head and screw and all this stuff. And it's very, very annoying, but the fact that I can just take my iPhone and I now have this Joby GorillaPod, which has MagSafe on the head. I can literally just put the iPhone right on this mount. And it just sticks.

LG: Oh that's cool.

JC: It's amazing. I don't need to screw anything on, I don't have to deal with the clamps. And there's so many of these accessories out there. Moment has these mounts that you can attach if you want to add video lights or microphones to your iPhone while you're filming and everything just clicks into place with no effort necessary. And I think that is amazing, I think more people should utilize it. And we have a guide on WIRED.com where I spent the past year testing more than 50 different cases and accessories for the iPhone 12. And we'll be doing one for the iPhone 13 so please go check that out, but also magnets.

MC: Magnets, stick to it.

LG: Mike, tell us about your recommendation.

MC: OK. So less over recommendation and more of a challenge. Just get the iPad Mini.


MC: I dare you to just get the iPad Mini instead of a phone, for real. Apple showed off the new iPad Mini this week and we haven't tried it yet. We don't know how it performs, but knowing Apple, knowing its track record with making tablets, it's probably great. It's the same size as the old iPad Mini, but the screen is bigger because they've improved the screen. They got rid of almost all the bezels they got rid of the home button now has touch ID on the wake sleep button, just like the iPad Pro. And it's beautiful. And it accepts the new stylists, the Apple Pencil too. So you can just magnetically clamp it onto the side and it wirelessly charges. It has a USB-C port, which is what you really want in a phone instead of a lightening port.

As far as we know, it doesn't have wireless charging, but I saw it and I was like, "It's a Galaxy Note." That's what it is. It's Apple's Galaxy Note, because it's just a little bit bigger than a Galaxy Note. It has the same size screen, it has a stylist you can use. And unless you're somebody who always holds their phone up to their ear, which I don't know anybody who does that anymore. And then you might not want to be holding a giant iPad Mini of next your ear, you'd look ridiculous. But also if you already do that with your galaxy note, you already look ridiculous, so just own it. It probably doesn't take as good of pictures as an iPhone 13, but as we discussed earlier, the pictures that it takes probably good enough. You can get it with 4G LTE, you can get it with 5G. You can buy a plan for it. It's only $500. Just get the iPad Mini it's like the ultimate giant phone. I kind of love it.

JC: I will say you probably also need to get a pair of cargo pants to go with that, to fit that in your pocket.

MC: I mean, that's a very patriarchal comment Julian, because you could also carry a purse or a satchel, a man purse, Just carry it there. I want to see it. I want to see people out in the world using an iPad Mini as their phone and with the stylist and like taking notes and watching movies because it's just does all the same phone stuff that we do.

LG: Well, two things to say about that, one is that you still can't pair an Apple Watch with an iPad, which is a real bummer. So if you're an Apple Watch fan, you can't actually just get rid of your iPhone and-

MC: But that doesn't matter, nobody needs an Apple Watch. That doesn't matter. That's fine.

LG: OK. The other thing is Carolina Milanesi, who wrote for Creative Strategies, her research is a pretty good breakdown of the Apple event. And one of the things she suggested is that Apple's sort of reinvestment in the iPad Mini this year, because you'll note the iPad Mini also has the top of the line processor in it is that this could be a precursor to a foldable. Now it was just a guess, but I thought it was a pretty good one.

MC: Yes, possibly. Although I will say that the iPad Mini is a foldable. It just doesn't fold, which is what you really want in a foldable, because folding devices are bad and the iPad Mini is good because it doesn't fold. Although it gives you all the advantages of a folding device without the big disadvantage, which is that it folds you see what I'm saying?

LG: So you're saying the iPad Mini is not the 3D TV of phones.

MC: No, it's the iPad Mini phones. It's the Galaxy Note of iPhones.

LG: Right. OK. And the Galaxy Note is dead now. So.

MC: RIP Galaxy Note. So all you people out there don't buy the folding phone because that's nonsense buy the iPad Mini.

LG: 5G.

MC: 5G. Lauren, what's your recommendation?

LG: My recommendation is not an Apple product. Geez, have you guys forgot to tell me that maybe you’re the next WIRED employees who left to go work for Apple? I feel like … All right. Anyway, my recommendation is from another tech giant. I recommend that you check out LuLaRich on Amazon Prime Video. It's a four-part docu series about the hopes and dashed dreams of LulaRoe sellers. LulaRoe was a multi-level marketing scheme, selling clothes to women. I will admit I've only watched the first episode so far. I was watching it last night and then I wanted to watch more, but I started to fall asleep because Apple event day was very tiring. So I'm going to continue it over the next few days, hopefully this weekend. But yeah, so far it's pretty gripping. The creators of the docu-series actually sat down with the co-founders of LuLaRoe, Dionne and Mark. And you can tell they sort of pitched them on, like, we want to hear your side of the story and the founders say we're so grateful someone is here to tell our side of the story, but you can just … You can tell right away that things are, things are not necessarily going to go well. So yeah. Check it out if you get the chance.

MC: Nice.

LG: All right. That's our show this week. Thanks Julian for joining us.

JC: Thank you for having me.

LG: Thanks Mike, for being the best co-host ever.

MC: Oh, right back at ya. Samesies.

LG: Samesies. And stay tuned for our iPhone 13 reviews coming sometime soon. And thanks to all of you for listening. If you have feedback, you can find all of a sudden Twitter, just check the show notes, we'll include our handles. This show is produced by the excellent Boone Ashworth, who is also a Pixel user. Goodbye for now. We'll be back next week.

[Gadget Lab outro theme music plays]

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